federal government, and potentially losing billions in federal funding. five days. north carolina, put on the clock today by the u.s. justice department. five days. to figure it out. good luck. that does it for us tonight. see you tomorrow. it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> i was watching the president's visit to flint, wanted to say, congratulations to you for having kept the attention on that story, when nobody else in national television was doing that you gave the story oxygen when you needed it you know and i know, you are talking about the other heroes of this story in flint. who got us to where we are tonight with it. got the president there today. nobody in national television did what you did with it. i don't want people forgetting that any time soon. >> thank you, lawrence. it is nice to say.

all credit to the people of flint who yelled loud enough they heard them. that is all it was. appreciate it, my friend. thanks. >> after john kasich dropped out. donald trump told lester holt how he plans to define hillary clinton, if she is the democratic nom neempt republicans are rushing to turn down the vice presidential nomination before donald trump gets a chance to offer it to them. where would donald trump and trumpism be tonight without the big lie that started it all. >> raise your hand if you predicted this a year ago. >> i gues -- >> it wasn't sexy. i vote for your wife, if you put her on the vp ticket. >> this is like the hijacking of an airplane with the passengers as the hijacker. >> big don, little marco. >> did you think this is where you would be this morning?

>> i didn't. i don't think it is necessarily bad. >> the lord will show me the way forward. >> i am not going to vote for mr. trump. >> i would like to see a high level campaign. >> i thought i could go longer. she can't put it away. >> bernie sanders is a socialist, or more than that i will get a lot of his support. >> i think he is a loose cannon. and loose cannons tend to misfire. >> we are this much closer to having a president that starts twitter fights with cher. >> in the first year of the obama presidency, polling revealed something important about republican voters. something that may be the most important thing about the republican voters who have now given donald trump the status of

presumptive nominee for the republican party. i don't remember hearing discussionos it on television or somewhere. someone must have noticed. someone in trump tower. 2009 poll show thad 44% of republicans believe that president obama was not born in the united states. two years later, donald trump began working his way into the hearts of those republicans. three weeks ago, i said i thought he was probably born in this country, now i have a bigger doubt than i did before. >> that was the beginning of donald trump's presidential campaign. they begin long before the candidates announced. donald trump laid the corner stone of his presidential

campaign, four years before he formally announced he was running for president. that corner stone was of that president obama is not a natural born president. donald trump became a hero to haters of barack obama, they don't need facts to support that hatred. the very best place to start, was with the support of the most intense haters of president obama. when donald trump rocketed up, 61% of his supporters said president obama was not born in the united states. that was five years after president obama's hawaiian certificate became public. five years after he is not investigators to hawaii to find incredible things, things he

never revealed. donald trump never sent any investigators anywhere. in 2012, over a year after president obama's birth certificate became public, donald trump tweeted this. an extremely credible source called my office and told me that barack obama's birth certificate is a fraud. interviews stopped asking him about the birth certificate, because donald trump told them he didn't want to talk about it anymore. that is all it took. to make that subject go away. hillary clinton should try that when asked about bengazi, she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. see if anybody drops the subjects, when hillary clinton said she doesn't want to talk about them anymore.

when donald trump announced it his presidential run, the candidate, born in the big lie, the big lie of sending investigators to hawaii. that candidate is now the presumptive nominee for president. he accused all of his opponents of lying, gave his final major opponent, ted cruz, the nicknarnlgs "lying ted" on his final day of campaigning yesterday, ted cruz diagnosed donald trump as a pathological liar for saying that his father was involved in the assassination of kennedy. >> he is a pathological liar.

he lies every word that comes out of his mouth. >> donald trump won the republican nomination, making the biggest and most impossible promises of any candidate run thanksgiving year, and possibly any candidate ever. he will force mexico to pay for a wall on the border. convince the chinese and russian government to behave in the interest of the united states, instead of in their own self interests. deport 11 million people. even though we don't have the law enforcement capacity to do that he will use a religious test to allow people into the united states. lester holt sat down with donald trump for a live interview for nightly news tonight and asked him about those big promises. >> i am joined by donald trump, in his office. good to see you. congratulations. >> thank you. >> i am sure the phone is

ringing off the hook. who called you with congratulations, a name that might surprise us. >> many, most interesting people that you wouldn't believe, people who have been on the show saying terrible things. >> names? >> i don't want to do that i have to let it come out through endorsements. one caller said so many bad things, i said, how can you pivot back to me? he said don't worry about it. i am not sure endorsements matter. although bobby knight does matter in indiana. did you hear from ted cruz? >> at the end it was competitive and tough. he did a good job. sglp john kasich? >> i have not spoken to him. i have gotten along with him. i have not spoken to him. >> you were sitting here watching the top of the broadcast with us. republicans burning their republican registration cards. angry of the idea of you representing the party?

>> it is unfair from a broadcasting standpoint. you didn't show millions more who voted in the primary than ever before. i am setting a record about ronald reagan and nixon, and everybody. it went back a long way in terms of the republicans coming in, voting for me in the primaries, i have many millions of people. millions more than anybody else that ran. we have a lot of new people coming into the party, lester. tremendous, millions of people. i think it is up over 70%. nobody can believe it. one of the hottest stories. >> you are speaking to the country. you have said a lot of things that shocked people, outraged people, about a temporary ban on muslim integration, and immigrants, they got you to where you are today. as you try to appeal to the entire country, do you stand by them.

do you stand by the idea of a ban against foreign muslims coming here? >> i do. we have to be vigilant, strong, there is a big problem in the world. you look what is happening with the migration in europe. look at germany, crime riddled right now. >> is that a first 100 days topic? >> it is an urgent problem in this country. san bernardino, in paris, this is a place where they don't have guns, killed 130 people, with hundreds in the hospital, critically injured. we have a president that doesn't want to mention the name of radical islamic terrorism. unless you are going to mention it, try to do something about it, you are never going to solve the problem. >> you promised to deport those in the country illegally? >> yes. they will be deported. we will have a -- many illegals in the country. we have to get them out, go through a system, and a process. those who have done well, and

achieved, bring them back in. >> your negatives are staggering. disapproval, 69% women, african americans, latinos, 79, how much of that is self-inflicted by some of the rhetoric from the primary campaign. how do you heal that while respecting those who got you here? >> the highly respected, i am 41 to 39, up on hillary clinton. i haven't started on hillary clinton yet. i don't know what you are talking about with the negatives. i think i will do well with women. in the last seven states, i won in landslide, i won at every level. >> you discard the numbers? >> i don't discard. i got it not even 24 hours ago. i didn't know until 24 hours ago, if i would win indiana, i won it in a landslide. >> it said it a number of times,

you haven't started on hillary clinton. give me three words you will use. >> bad judgment is a couple of words, used by bernie sanders. bernie sanders said she is not qualified to run for president because she suffers from bad judgment. i think that is true it look at the e-mail scandal. maybe he will survive, the democrats are protecting her. >> we talk about this epic showdown, is there anything off the table in terms of what you will go after? >> i will see what they do with me. if they are fair, i will be fair. >> bill clinton? will he be fair? >> they have to be fair with me or he becomes part of it. >> you would bring it up? >> it depends on what they bring up. if they treat me properly, i

will treat them properly. it would be a beautiful thing to see. you don't see it often. i would like to see it. >> loose cannon describing you, that loose cannons mis-fire. talking about your blufterring and bullying. >> a nasty term, given to her by one of of the pollsters, we need strength in this country. she is not strong t won't be strong with the military, with our borders, with is is. look at libya. even her vote to go into iraq, was a disastrous vote. one of many. it was a disastrous vote. i was against it for years. >> you talk about donations can have bad influence, there is a super pack to support you. where do you stand now? as you move into the expensive

general election campaign. will you accept donations? >> i don't know about super packs, people like me, form a super pack, i am not allowed to have anything to do with it. we will see. as far as the campaign, i am making decisions right now. that it will be necessary, the democrats may be get as high as two billion. we want to raise up to a billion, maybe over that i am not sure that is necessary. i have a big voice. i go on shows like yours, explain the truth it people seem to go along with it. you look at the victories, 16 people, senators, governors, high level people, one by one, they are gone. we will see what happens now. i think hillary will be easier to beat than the senators and governors that we just were victorious with. >> tell me how the oddilate is

going, you haven't released the tax returns, talked about an irs audit. >> still going on. honestly, it is unfair. i have been audited every year for 13, 14 years. every year, i get audited. i will release my returns when the audit ends. >> nothing in the returns to make your supporters raise an eyebrow? >> no. vifriends who are wealthy, they say they have never been audited. i think it is unfair. >> thank you very much for your time. >> when we come back, was last night the death of the republican party and the birth of the trump party? michael steele, charlie psyches will join us. there are two billion people who don't have access to basic banking, but that is changing. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations

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breaking news from utah. senator bennett has died.

he was first elected in the senator 1992, served three terms, he lost the -- he suffered from pacreatic cancer. robert foster bennett was 82. you've finally earned enough reward miles on your airline credit card. now you just book a seat, right? not quite. sometimes those seats are out of reach, costing an outrageous number of miles.

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much of it some of it i don't want. there are statements made about me, they can go away and come back eight years after we serve two terms. >> charlie baker? >> there are a number of issues i argue vehemently with. i am not going to vote for mr. trump, i doubt i will be voting for hillary clinton either. the editer in chief of right wisconsin, he is a leader, and michael steele, yes, is there a republican party left? >> yes, there is. yes, there is. stop it.

of course there is. you know, what we have seen as the other gentlemen know has been on-going for some time. fractures and fissures forming inside the party for a while. certainly, when i came in office, we came off a humiliating defeat in 2008. lost in 2006. we had a fractured base. this is not new for the party. what is different is donald trump. how he is cross pollinating, bringing in new voters, and while others are inside the party are upset. we don't know how it will all play out yet. we are not dead at this point. despite some folks on the left who want to hope or think so. >> the former chairman, saying we are not dead at this point. the current chairman saying it

is not necessarily bad. that is his phrase, not necessarily bad that donald trump is going to be the nominee. >> i have a -- is that a question? is there a republican party left here, stewart? >> listen, i think donald trump is a disaster. i think he is going to lead the party, every reason to believe, to a historic defeat. simple math here n 2012. a real race, only one republican, one for the u.s. senate in a state that romney lost in nevada. in that doesn't bode well, if you are in a state that the top of the ticket isn't winning or doing well. right now, donald trump has 28% favorable. he has gotten the most exposure of any presidential candidate in history.

so, the more people see him, the more people don't like him. none of those are positive trends. i think we are headed into a very bleak period here. >> we have two former living republican presidents, and charlie, both of them are named bush, both said they have no intention of commenting on the presidential campaign. two former presidents that won't consider endorsing the republican nominee for president. >> the fight over the nomination is over. now we have the fight for the soul of the party, the reality is that donald trump is a serial liar, someone who mocks the disabled, women, republicans who roll over, and think this is business as usual are going to own all of that i want them to think about this over the next

six months, every lie, every outrage, wacky conspiracy theory, they will have to defend, or evade. the reality is, at some point, you have to step back and g look, this race is over. in terms of, i think, who wins the presidential election. conservative, principle conservatives have to ask themselves, are they willing to sell their integrity for this guy? it will be hard for a lot of republicans to walk back, say to minorities, say to young people, women, that is not us. that is not who we are. if they back donald trump, that is who they are. it will be very hard for them to wipe the stink away. i know they are mad at trump, there has to be some folks who will have the credibility to come after this is over to pick up the pieces and say, trumpism is not conserveatism, that is

not who we are. >> do you know what you will do with your vote? a principle third party conservative. i will look at the libertarian party, i may have to write in somebody. i can't control the outcome, i won't be voting for trump. i won't vote for hillary clinton. i have been criticiing hillary clinton, when donald trump was giving her big bucks. i think that conservatives have to ask fundamental issues at what point does party loyalty trump it recognition that this man is unsuitable to be president of the united states. how do you walk back some of the things people have said about

donald trump, and say, yes, but put him in the oval office. it is scary enough that we may give the man the nuclear codes, put him in charge of the fbi, the fcc, this is something that people need to think any seriously. between now and november. >> michael. mark salter decided how he will vote, former top aide to john mccain. he said the gop will nominate, the guy who reads the "national inquirer" and think its is on the level. he is going over. >> god bless him. you know, that is what makes it a big party and a great country. you get to make that decision. you get to decide for yourself and access hillary and donald trump. and so far in this republican primary, some over ten million of them.

accessed themselves, favorably toward trump. i understand what everything that has been said. my question s where was all of that back in june, august of last year. the tea party. >> let me finish. >> i was there. i was calling that out. >> let me finish the point. i am not questioning where people were, per se, i am saying, this isn't a space that we are unfamiliar with. this has been brewing inside the party for a long time. and. >> it is wrong. >> this is -- >> trump is new. >> let michael finish his point. >> trump is new. the anger, the frustration, the pissed off nature of the base is not. i sat in the room with them. the first group of tea parties april, 2009, to meet with the

chairman to complain where the party was. i get what you are saying. trump is new, the anger is not. that is the piece that establishment and others misjudged from the beginning, including the stop trump people. >> charlie. >> the anger is real. the con man, hijacked it, and distorted it. he wants to run on the issue of hillary's judgment. i am glad you brought up the fact that yesterday, saying that ted cruz's father was involved in the jfk assassination. this is the man that republican party is putting up to be president of the united states. yes the anger is real. i share the anger, this is new. this isn't business as usual. this is an .

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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. how donald trump will try to define hillary clinton, how hillary clinton will define donald trump. a look back at how the they got the most unpopular nominee in

history. >> he doesn't have a birth certificate. or hasn't shown it. when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they are bringing drugs, they are bringing crime, they are rapists. i will build a great wall. john mccain, he is a war hero because he was captured. i like people who weren't captured. donald trump is calling a complete shut down of muslims entering the u.s. >> you call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. >> you could see blood coming out of her wherever. look at that face, he cries, would anyone vote for that can you imagine that the face of our next president? >> i never attack him on his look, and believe me, there is plenty of subject matter there.

i watched when the world trade center came tumbling down. thousands were cheering. i don't know what i said, i don't remember. you see that? i could stand in the mitted of fifth avenue, shoot somebody, and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? >> do you believe in punishment for abortion as a principle? >> the answer is, there has to be a form of punishment. >> jeb bush, we call him low energy. lying ted. crooked hillary. if we win, indiana, it is over. >> for the chairman of the republican party, donald trump will be presumptive republican nominee. >> we will make america great again. pet moments are beautiful,

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he told lester holt how will define hillary give me three wor use as you will use as you press forward. >> bad judgment is a couple of words we could use. used by bernie sanders. she is not qualified to run for president because she suffered from bad judgment. look at the e-mail scandal. under fbi investigators, the democrats are proet tecting her but that is the only reason she will survive. >> hillary clinton defined donald trump with two words, loose cannon. >> i have sign the presidency up close, i think i know what it takes, i don't think we can take a risk with a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. >> back with us, stewart, in the

trump war room tonight they are looking at hillary clinton. trying to use the judgment angle on her. and quotingly bernie sanders, what i look for in the primaries, what are the opponents of the eventual nominees saying that other party can use against them. the file against trump, from the mouths of the republican candidates, is endless. what do you make of trump's first attempt of defiing hillary clinton. >> if you are sitting in the war room, bad judgment looks good. my guy, earlier in the day, was accusing a republican senator of their father linked to the jfk assassination. i mean, you are going to raise a judgment question?

this goes with the problem that trump has. when you start getting to the white house, and making the choices. he is going to have to somehow be able to pass a tles hold where the majority of people can see him as presidential. if i was in that war room, i would be looking at how to expand that. i think that that is the first task. >> there seems to be a unique problem with the war roompt anything that you throw at the democratic candidate. any word can be immediately thrown back to you. he used the word fraud today, donald trump d he is the only presidential candidate in history who is a defendant in a fraud case, two of them, in new york and california, while campaigning for president. when you are in the trump war room, pick up a bomb to toss,

you think, this one is coming back to us. >> they don't call him teflon don for nothing. don't underestimate this guy. he is defies conventional wisdom. i would approach a duel with a chimpanzee with a machine gun. the rules don't apply. >> do we have evidence that it rules are not going to apply in the general election? that electorate has abandoned the rules from before? >> it is hard to predict how and when it will happen. donald trump to me, is like someone who jumped off a

building, is at floor 50 and thinks he has learned how to fly. it happened with todd akin, richard murdoch, and sharon angle, in many way, it could be what is happening here with donald trump. 20% of voters voted for donald trump. he said he has gotten the most votes, he has gotten the most people not voting for donald trump in american history. i think that the question it is in the trump war room they need to address. someone in the bush war room, they dealt with, it wasn't until the first debate with al gore, george bush wasn't someone they could see as president. >> the presidential decision,

that has to be made, who do i want as my vp. john mccain failed that presidential decision. the unique thing that war room has is a list of people who turned down the vice president, john kasich, lindsey graham, are all nos before you offer it to them. they are not going to have a wider menu, where they get to pick a state they want help with or a credential they might want. >> i believe that whole vp stake system overrated. stewart, i think you agree with me. president obama chose biden. a reliably democratic state. he chose him for his experience. when you chose ryan in 2012, i don't think you thought, you would win wisconsin with him on the ticket. you chose him, you thought, and

mitt romney felt comfortable with the fact that he would be a good president. nobody wants to be on the titanic. you see so many turning it down. you need someone more positive, more likeable, you could put out there on tv, and soften the edges a bit. i wouldn't look at different states and the type of demographics, look for someone that had a softer edge to the campaign. >> quick last word on the vp. >> foreign policy, i wouldn't be surprised if he looks to military for a vice president. someone who has judgment. and experience in foreign policy. >> liz smith, stuart stevens, thank you for joining us in our war room tonight. coming up. elizabeth warren attacked donald trump last night, exactly the way the democrats would want

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when donald trump became the presumptive republican nominee. senator warren attacked donald trump with the righteous vengeance of a vice presidential candidate. donald trump built his a couple

of minutes after that, what happened next will test the character for all of us, republican, democrat and independent. and she ends her twitter blast with, i will fight my heart out to make sure that donald trump's toxic stew never reaching the white house. >> twitter is the audition forum for vice presidential candidates, that was a good round of vice presidential style attack. >> yes, indeed. as agnew was to knickson, warren can be to hillary clinton. she is good. what is interesting, she excites the left, she doesn't have the problematic history -- >> socialist.

>> i am not sure it would, according to polling going into the general election, elizabeth warren, consider her for a moment. the second time she has had and really tough direct attacks. >> i don't know how close she is to wanting to be vice president. how close hillary clinton is to f in some ways may overshadow her. she checks off more than one box than the vice presidential qualifying, being an attack dog is one thing. she brings progressive issues to the table in a way that hillary clinton has not been able to wrap her hands around.

she appeals to kitch table democrats, and maybe, low income, suburb i think they want a republican senator. linden johnson took every senator who has ever been offered it has taken this thing. it is a more powerful position. >> go ahead. >> she is then the first one. many advantages to a woman along with hillary clinton, doubling that excitement, and exciting performer as a candidate. it is the trump style of attack.

if a man is the democratic vice presidential nominee. trump is going to marco that guy, there will be a little marco label on that guy. he is not able to -- >> he has done that with warren, talking about her american indian thing. >> the vice presidential choice can do anything, give excitement. two women, this woman, the progressive branch finds exciting that is a win-win. >> if you look at this decision, the least important factor has been, how much do i like this person? that has always been the last -- it is on the list, the bottom thing on the list. >> i did talk to a female senator who said, we have a long history of this country of single gender tickets. >> quick break.

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that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? >> tom freedman, talking trump and the lord's work, this version of the republican party had to be destroyed so a thinking right party can emerge, if this is what trump has done, he has done the lord's work. put the lord's work in a sentence, he has done his job. >> i sgs his point. that is the glass half full version of this. will the true conservative, the people who really think they are serious republicans, the right, will they think that ted cruz's failure was a reputation of

their -- i feel they might not. >> what do you make of tom freedman's republican party had to be destroyed, if that is what donald trump has done, that's great. >> destroy the party to save the party in a way. for eight years or longer, we had this tea party fever burning through, playing footsy with all the excess says, that brings in donald trump. is this the final nuclear showdown for them? after this they can pick themselves out of the ashes and move on as a reasonable party? i don't know if i would put money on that. >> the problem is, if donald trump, if everything follows the polls, and donald trump loses by 15 points whatever it turns out to be. the conservatives in the republican party get to say, again, it is because we didn't nominate -- rush limbaugh will say, it is because we didn't

nominate a true conservative. after rush has backed trump all the way. >> therefore, he was a jerk, and couldn't be -- >> they never bother to explain, why the true conservatives don't win the nomination. they have never care body that explanation. we just say, we lost the general because we didn't have a true conservative. >> they attack the g.o.p. for rigging the rules against them. they got ronald reagan, that worked better. if you look at cruz, i see the answer there. day one. day one. they are going to say, this is not a strategy party, it is a right party, you didn't take that seriously. this civil war will not be resolved by this. >> that is what they are going to say if trump loses.

if trump wins -- we are out of time for that. that will have to be another painful night. it's over. donald trump, a reality tv star and businessman from new york with no political background is the new standard bearer of the republican party, like it or not. with that reality comes a moment of truth for the republican party itself. can they back him? a growing list of republicans are saying yes, they can. governor nikki haley out